SH 130 is a bust

"ttyymmnn" (ttyymmnn) 11/12/2018 at 14:49 • Filed to: None

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About 12 years ago, TxDOT opened the privately funded SH 130 toll road that bypasses Austin and was supposed to alleviate traffic congestion in Interstate 35. Trouble is, it’s so far outside of town and so expensive that few people use it. It routinely takes longer to bypass Austin on the toll road than to sit in traffic on the free interstate.

56 minutes and $13, or 43 minutes and free? Not much of a decision.

So the state took a $100M payout from the toll road company to increase the speed limit to 85 in 2012, making it the highest posted speed limit in the country. People still aren’t taking the toll road, and deaths have increased along with the speed limit. It was a boondoggle from the start, and remains so. Of course, you don’t have to drive 85, and many don’t. And of course, many drive faster. I found this tidbit from a local news story interesting:

On average, drivers speeding in zones marked with an 85-mph sign travel about 98 mph, according to an analysis of DPS data. Last year, more than half of speed-limit violators on the toll road were clocked going 95 mph or faster, and 115 people were alleged to be driving 100 mph or faster on the toll road. Those DPS records showed one driver going 143 mph.

I’d love to know what that person going 143 was driving. IMO, 85 is simply too fast, especially on a road that is only two lanes for much of the way. But, like all the toll roads in Austin, this was never about easing congestion. It was always about making money.

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For Sweden > ttyymmnn 11/12/2018 at 14:55

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Tripper > ttyymmnn 11/12/2018 at 14:58

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“I’d love to know what that person going 143 was driving”

Could be nearly anything these days. I’ve seen 140 in a stock 2005 mini cooper S. Not on a public road of course. Still, a lot of cars get to 150 way too quickly.

Kim Jong - Healthy > For Sweden 11/12/2018 at 14:59

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all the stars for you.

TheBloody, Oppositelock lives on in our shitposts. > For Sweden 11/12/2018 at 15:03

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Party-vi > ttyymmnn 11/12/2018 at 15:04

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I like that SH-130 is “privately funded” with damn near $430M coming from a federal loan for segments 5-6. I would imagine a similar amount was used for the initial $1.5B cost. 

HammerheadFistpunch > ttyymmnn 11/12/2018 at 15:05

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I ts not that 85 is too fast, per-se, its that speed limits work best when set near the fat part of the curve. if the rest of the surrounding area is used to driving 75-80 then 85 will either feel too fast or feel like an invitation to speed, pushing users into the far left and rights of the curve. That’ s when accidents and deaths spike. The difference of speed is dangerous. D oing 80 because you think that’ s enough speed puts you on one side, and someone doing 98 because they feel they can puts them on the other side. 18 mph delta is a fast delta for highway traffic. that’ s like going 52 in a 70...its asking for trouble.

dogisbadob > ttyymmnn 11/12/2018 at 15:05

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Easy. If they don’t ticket anyone under, say, 100, maybe even 120, is that fast enough to offset the sitting in traffic on the free road? Or is even that 143 not fast enough to make it faster than sitting in traffic? O_O

Is the DPS records mean people that were pulled over? Most states other than Virginia rarely ticket for less than 10 mph over on those highways.

More enforcement in the free roads and less in the toll road may also steer more towards the toll road.

HammerheadFistpunch > ttyymmnn 11/12/2018 at 15:06

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The next question becomes - how much will the state eventually be able to buy it back for?

and 100 more > ttyymmnn 11/12/2018 at 15:09

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Can’t fuggin’ WAIT to see 71 get turned into a toll road from Cedar Creek to the airport, because we all know how much economic BOOM is gonna come to Del Valle from that! #TollAllTheThings

(/s, in case it wasn’t obvious)

What really needs to be done is a comprehensive mass transit overhaul throughout Austin metro area (a la Portland’s MAX). That will help alleviate congestion in a major way.

But 130 is great for whenever Hennessy needs to use the toll gates for timing their high-speeds test runs.

RiceRocketeer Extraordinaire > ttyymmnn 11/12/2018 at 15:10

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That sounds suspiciously like one of my bad ideas from Cities Skylines.

ttyymmnn > HammerheadFistpunch 11/12/2018 at 15:17

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Exactly. TxDOT says that most of the crashes are due to inattentive drivers or drunk drivers. So the speed limit itself isn’t unsafe. But if you’re going 90 on a two-lane road and you’re approaching a truck going 70, that’s a significant closing speed, one that most drivers aren’t used to. Things happen a hell of a lot faster at those speeds, and reaction times are significantly reduced. 

facw > and 100 more 11/12/2018 at 15:20

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My feeling living in Austin, and seeing the horrible north/south congestion is that it’s completely nuts that they haven’t arranged to build Union Pacific a bypass around the east of the city, and then used the existing UP right-of-way which runs right into the heart of the city for some sort of rapid transit.

ttyymmnn > and 100 more 11/12/2018 at 15:20

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What really needs to be done is a comprehensive mass transit overhaul throughout Austin metro area (a la Portland’s MAX). That will help alleviate congestion in a major way.

Agreed. But I’m not holding my breath. All of these roads should have been done years ago when the new airport opened. And why we don’t have a rail line out to the airport is beyond me.

TheTurbochargedSquirrel > Tripper 11/12/2018 at 15:20

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Meanwhile I don't think my 04 Cooper is capable of reaching redline in 4th (somewhere around 120).

and 100 more > ttyymmnn 11/12/2018 at 15:22

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I’m only commenting because I can’t add any more stars. Rail line to the airport is such an obvious move, it’s bor derline criminal that they haven’t done it yet.

Austin City Council motto: “C.R.E.A.M.”

facw > ttyymmnn 11/12/2018 at 15:25

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I still think it will eventually make money for someone. Right now east Austin is significantly underdeveloped, and at some point stuff will fill in along the highway. As a bypass though, it’s going too far out of the way to make sense except perhaps at rush hour, and most of Austin’s traffic is local, so it’s not like diverting a few Dallas > San Antonio cars is going to do much (and truck traffic isn’t going to care about an 85 mph limit at all).

My understanding is that the toll road deal isn’t actually a very bad one for the taxpayers either, apparently they are much less on the hook for a failure than in other markets.

davesaddiction @ opposite-lock.com > ttyymmnn 11/12/2018 at 15:26

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98 on average?! Wow. 

and 100 more > facw 11/12/2018 at 15:26

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Seriously. Buy 130 from the Spanish, sell it to UP in exchange for the MoPac corridor. Build a light-rail commuter between Leander and Buda, and expand out to the airport immediately.

Nope, let’s just soak the citizenry and jack property tax instead.

benjrblant > ttyymmnn 11/12/2018 at 15:27

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I’m so disappointed that Austin lacks a rail line from the airport to downtown, let alone anywhere. 

Yowen - not necessarily not spaghetti and meatballs > Tripper 11/12/2018 at 15:33

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Most cars are limited far below 150. Additionally, if people are taking them to 150, it’s just that, people. We shouldn’t blame the capabilities of the car.

Yowen - not necessarily not spaghetti and meatballs > dogisbadob 11/12/2018 at 15:35

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Another example would be Ohio.

As for less enforcement on the toll road, I’d disagree, that’s a dangerous game, it opens the door to otherwise unfairly allocating police resources. I don’t believe we should give one group of drivers more enforcement and thus safer roads than another group of drivers.

Yowen - not necessarily not spaghetti and meatballs > HammerheadFistpunch 11/12/2018 at 15:37

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I’ll give them $1,000 to buy it . But only oppo members may drive on it.

Tripper > Yowen - not necessarily not spaghetti and meatballs 11/12/2018 at 15:46

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Most beige mobiles  maybe. I wasn’t blaming anyone just stating the fact that a lot of cars will go that fast.

deekster_caddy > ttyymmnn 11/12/2018 at 15:49

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pretty sure it was this guy

ttyymmnn > davesaddiction @ opposite-lock.com 11/12/2018 at 15:59

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I’ve only driven it a couple of times, but I haven’t seen average speeds like that. They must be doing the math on entry/exit scans. 

Yowen - not necessarily not spaghetti and meatballs > Tripper 11/12/2018 at 15:59

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You stated that a lot of cars get to 150 to quickly. Which is a very odd statement on a car enthusiast website. A lot of us buy fast cars and/or modify cars to go faster.

ttyymmnn > benjrblant 11/12/2018 at 15:59

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They’ve got “airport flyer” buses, but they suck. 

marshknute > ttyymmnn 11/12/2018 at 16:10

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I’m going to go ahead and call BS on most, if not all of these cherry-picked and intentionally misleading statistics.

First of all, t hese numbers fail to cite overall accident numbers, nor does the article compare the fatality rate to other highways .

An increase to the 85th percentile speed limit is expected to decrease the number of overall accidents (because the law-abiding slowpokes can now legally join the flow of traffic ), while increasing fatalities (because for the few remaining crashes, you’re going that much faster).

But if half of speeders are exceeding the speed limit, then the posted limit does not reflect the 85th percentile speed limit, and should be raised accordingly.

That said, the article concurrently fails to explain what it means by “half of speed limit violators.” Does they actually mean half, or do they mean half of the ones actually ticketed by law enforcement? I suspect it’s the latter, so it isn’t surprising at all that the “average” speeder is coincidentally just barely double-digits above the posted limit...almost as if the  cops were ignoring speeders unless they were 10+ over the limit.

As for making the toll too expensive and building the road way out in the boonies, you got me there.

davesaddiction @ opposite-lock.com > ttyymmnn 11/12/2018 at 16:30

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I drove it on the way to CoTA in 2014. I probably did ~ 7 over (like normal).

Tripper > Yowen - not necessarily not spaghetti and meatballs 11/12/2018 at 16:31

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Yea I guess my wording does inflect blame, but I meant like too quickly for the type of people that would decide to do that on a public road because they will because people are idiots.

Where have all the lightweights gone? > ttyymmnn 11/12/2018 at 16:43

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I’ve been a passenger in a friend’s vehicle (a Boss 302 Mustang) on SR 130, and we’ve definitely ignored that already high speed limit. The road was empty, and he opened up WOT all the way through 4th.

It was a fun afternoon...

Chariotoflove > ttyymmnn 11/12/2018 at 17:05

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My car can easily cruise comfortably at 90. However, it is wife-limited to about 75.

I got so frustrated slogging through Austin last trip during what I had been sure would be off-peak.  I was thinking about maybe trying this bypass next time.  It wasn’t just Austin that was bad.  It started getting really slow from Round Rock on down.

ttyymmnn > marshknute 11/12/2018 at 18:03

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I wouldn’t put too much effort into analyzing this article. Based on past experience with this particular website, I’m surprised there are as many coherent and grammatically correct sentences as there are. 

ttyymmnn > davesaddiction @ opposite-lock.com 11/12/2018 at 18:04

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I’m getting old, as are my cars, and I’m not that crazy about doing 85. 80 was just fine.

ttyymmnn > Chariotoflove 11/12/2018 at 18:06

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My car can easily cruise comfortably at 90. However, it is wife-limited to about 75.

LOL. There is no such thing as off-peak here any more. There was when I moved here 20 years ago. Now there are just too damned many cars. You might have a bit more fun on 130, but I can almost guarantee you that it will take you longer to get where you are going. And your wallet will be lighter.

Chariotoflove > ttyymmnn 11/12/2018 at 18:10

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Was afraid you’d say that.  It probably depends on the frustration level at the moment.  Sometimes, I just feel better moving than sitting in stop and go, even if I know it takes longer.

davesaddiction @ opposite-lock.com > ttyymmnn 11/12/2018 at 18:17

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I was in my M3. It’s just getting warmed up at 90!  =) My truck doesn’t really like anything past 80.

Spamfeller Loves Nazi Clicks > ttyymmnn 11/12/2018 at 18:27

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I bet you would, Mister State Trooper. Well you can’t fool me!

ttyymmnn > Chariotoflove 11/12/2018 at 18:39

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Agreed.

Manwich - now Keto-Friendly > ttyymmnn 11/12/2018 at 19:21

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“85 is simply too fast, especially on a road that is only two lanes for much of the way.”

It’s not the number of lanes, but how the road is designed that matters.

In Germany, I drove on unlimited sections that were only 2 lanes and I was doing 100mph in a 45hp VW Polo... and it was perfectly fine. 

What made it fine was the road was designed for high speeds. Meaning gentle, properly banked curves. No sudden dips or humps. Nice even, smooth, well maintained pavement.

And good signage giving you enough warning also matters as well.

I like cars: Jim Spanfeller is one ugly motherfucker > ttyymmnn 11/12/2018 at 19:42

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My car starts to shake and get scary around 75. However, it really smooths out above 100. That said, I never intentionally go that fast, because I fear for my life in that car.

gmporschenut also a fan of hondas > ttyymmnn 11/12/2018 at 21:40

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humblebrag: the autobahn is a bit nuts. trucks doing 100kph (63), traffic doing 140 (90) and then every now and then someone laying the hammer down doing 200. Can it be done safely with attentive drivers, properly maintianed vehicles, and roads kept in good condition? yes.

Should it be done in the states? no

HoustonRunner > Chariotoflove 11/12/2018 at 22:54

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Things have always been slower in Round Rock (insert rimshot here).

(Posted by a product of Round Rock public schools, which were exemplary)

In all seriousness, the traffic is a huge reason I missed the area less and less when I graduated from A&M and got a job in Houston.  Yes, there is traffic in Houston, but most of the time there is an alternate route.  35 and Mopac were both so bad in the late 90’s and early 00’s I just didn’t visit my friends in Austin when I came to see my parents in RR.  The hill country is scenic though....

Chariotoflove > HoustonRunner 11/12/2018 at 22:58

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That’s the thing, having an escape route can preserve your sanity sometimes, even if it’s not quicker.

ttyymmnn > gmporschenut also a fan of hondas 11/12/2018 at 23:46

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I drove on the Autobahn a few times about 20 years ago. We had a rental 5 speed Focus, and it was perfectly happy right about 85, and a bit skittish at anything above that. But yeah, you’re tooling along in the middle lane at 85 and then some guy in a giant Benz blows by you on the left at well over 100 mph. It’s kind of crazy, but I can’t imagine something like in the States, particularly with semis going 65 and not staying in the right lane. It’s a recipe for disaster. 

jchapa > ttyymmnn 11/13/2018 at 17:00

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I can't imagine doing 85 on some of the bumpy sections closer to Lockhart. 

TheCollective > ttyymmnn 11/13/2018 at 17:42

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What are you smoking?

especially on a road that is only two lanes for much of the way...

That road is mostly 6-8 lanes of empty highway with high visibility and light traffic.  100mph feels almost sublime on that stretch, and it is highly satisfying to stretch your legs a bit.  Have you even driven this road?

ttyymmnn > TheCollective 11/13/2018 at 17:50

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I have. And the stretch that I drive is two lanes. That’s why they are widening it.